Wichita police chief finalists talk about racism, immigration laws and more at forum

Wichitans grilled the finalists for Wichita police chief for two hours Tuesday night on topics ranging from illegal immigration to racism and officer accountability.

The two finalists are Mario R. Knapp, a former major and 26-year member of the Miami-Dade Police Department in Florida, and Joseph P. Sullivan, a former deputy commissioner of patrol operations and 38-year veteran of the Philadelphia Police Department.

City Manager Robert Layton is expected to hire one of them by the end of the month. Tuesday’s town hall meeting was the public’s opportunity to ask questions of the candidates.

Many longtime advocates for police accountability said they were impressed by Sullivan, who they said was more direct in answering their questions.

“(Sullivan) seems a lot more personal,” said Sheila Officer, chair of the Wichita Racial Profiling Advisory Board. “He’s more community oriented. ... I think he has more community relationship experience than the other guy. I almost sense a tone of arrogance from the other guy. But with Sullivan, I liked his answers. And even though he rambled a little bit, they were sincere answers.”

“I came away with a much better feeling about Joe Sullivan,” Julia Colette, a transgender woman, said. “I have no idea what his politics are, but to hear him talk, I hear him demonstrate a capacity for empathy that I think would make him a better chief of police.”

Others said Knapp would also be a good choice.

“Overall, I liked what they both had to say,” District 4 resident Chris Parisho said after the meeting. “Now, I’ve got to kind of do some research into each one and see is there anything that stands out in their history maybe that would make one better than the other. I think they’re pretty even at this point.”

Both candidates said their experiences in larger police departments have prepared them to solve several problems within the Wichita Police Department.

Recent issues within the department include racist, sexist and homophobic text messages sent and received by members of the SWAT team, mishandling of internal investigations by police leadership, lost and improperly stored evidence and accusations of undue influence in officer discipline by the Fraternal Order of Police.

“Whatever problem I encounter in Wichita, I probably or one of my colleagues has dealt with it in Philadelphia, and I can always reach back,” Sullivan said.

“I’m not looking to make Wichita PD Miami-Dade, but I am looking at improving and bettering relationships — because in Miami-Dade, we have a pretty good history. . . . There’s a lot of things that we’ve done wrong, but there, by and large, there’s a lot of things that we’ve done right. And I think we can bring some of that to Wichita,” Knapp said.

Many of the questions on Tuesday night had already been answered in previous interviews with the candidates but some answers were entirely new.

For instance, both candidates vowed not to enforce federal immigration laws at the local level.

“I don’t feel that it’s local law enforcement’s responsibility to handle immigration law,” Knapp said. “I do believe that if you break the law, you need to be held accountable for breaking the law, but I don’t feel that we need to go out there and do roundups and try to find, you know, undocumented people or undocumented workers arbitrarily. That’s not something we should get into.”

“This is the Wichita police; it’s not ICE (U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement),” Sullivan said. “We’re not going to participate in the enforcement of immigration laws.”

They both also agreed that every officer on the Wichita Police Department should be trained in Crisis Intervention Team, or CIT, training and that outside agencies should investigate police killings.

District 6 resident Bill Anderson asked both candidates to tell the audience about racist behavior they had seen from police and to explain what they did about it.

Knapp, who is of Cuban descent, said he experienced racism firsthand about 25 years ago when a senior officer, who didn’t know Knapp is Hispanic, encouraged him to go into SWAT.

“He looks at my name tag and says, ‘Well, good. I’m glad you’re going to do that. Get rid of all those damn Cuban oyes over there,’” Knapp said.

Knapp said “oyes,” which is Spanish for “hey,” came off as a derogatory term when used by the other officer.

Knapp said he said this in response: “I guess I’m going to fit right in because I’m Cuban. And he looked over at me and he said ‘Oh,’ and he left. I never saw him again in my career. I was hoping I would when I was a captain, but I didn’t.”

Knapp said he hasn’t encountered racism as a supervisor because he doesn’t put up with it.

“People shouldn’t have room to feel comfortable to do anything like that,” Knapp said. “ … But the fact that it happens tells me that there’s a lack of leadership and lack of communication with the leaders.”

Sullivan said his most recent encounter with racism was a trove of racist Facebook posts by officers in the Philadelphia Police Department. He and the Philadelphia leadership team fired multiple officers and suspended several others. Many of those suspensions and firings have been overturned during an appeal process and in court, but Sullivan said he feels he made the right decision.

“I will tell you this, I would do the same thing tomorrow . . . because I have to answer to those communities that were so offended by the people that are paid to protect them, and I had to make sure they understood that I understood just how critical this was,” Sullivan said. “It’s regrettable that some of those officers made it back to the police department, but, again, that wouldn’t change the way that I respond to that in Philadelphia or Wichita tomorrow. Evil is evil, and I’m going to respond to that in the very same way.”

This story was originally published October 12, 2022 at 4:49 AM.